Pearl of Tyburn: Now we have with us Mr. Paul Watterson, media deputy of
"Open Unionism", coming to us from Eastern Europe. Welcome, Mr.
Watterson.
Paul Watterson: Hello, Pearl.
P.T.: Please tell me a little bit about your background and upbringing.
P.W.: I was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, to
an apolitical family. I have lived and studied in the North of England and
London, and am presently working as an English teacher on mainland Europe.
P.T.: You say your family was “apolitical”. Does
this mean that you saw yourselves as outside the sectarian stereotypes of
Catholic/Protestant, Loyalist/Republican, and “Gaelic”/Ulster Settlers?
P.W.: My father came from a strongly working/class
background and he remains pretty left-wing and certainly
non-sectarian in his outlook. Actually, my brother and sisters would
today also probably identify more as socialists than Unionists. My
father came from a loyalist generation (pre-Troubles) that was
also comfortable in describing themselves as Irish first and foremost- his
church (in east Belfast) in the 60’s would organize trips to Dublin and
Galway.
So, he and I certainly don't regard ourselves as
"settlers"; our family has been on the island of Ireland for near
enough 400 years now and I think that probably qualifies us as being
as much Irish as Gerry Adams may or may not be!
P.T.: What was it like being raised in an
apolitical, “Irish” household during The Troubles? Did it have any lasting
effect on you or on those around you?
P.W.: I personally was "lucky", I guess,
in that I wasn't directly affected by The Troubles as such; our school bus
would regularly be attacked as it went through a "Catholic" area, but
I don't put that down to political violence. It was more like plain sectarian
vandalism.
My father lost two colleagues, both of whom were shot
by Republicans, and his family on the maternal side was an isolated
Protestant one living in a republican part of South Derry.
They literally slept with their guns under the bed, so sure were they that
ethic cleansing was on the local IRA's agenda.
But really in comparison to others, we were relatively
lucky. You kept your political views to yourself in those times, and as a
result, my father's more "laissez faire" approach to his identity
never caused him many problems. It's interesting that the vast majority of
families in the UK were not affected directly by The Troubles, but the psychological
effect and its continuing influence on our politics can't be underestimated.
P.T.: Aside from statistics, it sounds as if you
and your family were quite blessed to remain safe during a dangerous time. Online
Unionism is certain all the better for it with regards to your work on “A Pint
of Unionist Lite” and “Open Unionism.” I personally would never have gotten
involved in all this if not for you.
What
first encouraged you to become active politically?
P.W.: The main thing which persuaded me to take up
politics actively was the possibility that NI politics would become more UK
based with the entry of the Conservative Party into the equation as a coalition
with the UUP.
P.T.: Are there any political parties in particular
that you belonged to and/or associated yourself with?
P.W.: I have been a member of one party for
only a short-time, and that was the Ulster Unionist Party (UUP). At that
point, the UUP was working very closely with the Conservative Party in an
attempt to develop a form of all-UK Unionism. However, that concept was never
really bought into being by the majority of the UUP, and when the more
"traditionalist" wing of the party started to predominate again, I
left.
P.T.: Could you explain the different "mission
statements" of the Conservative Party and the Ulster Unionist Party and
what brought about the possibility of a coalition between them?
P.W.: The UUP traditionally has been a socially and
economically conservative party. But the Conservative Party link-up was
supposedly built upon a modern, UK-wide, non-sectarian form of Unionism. It
didn't work, as there were too many within the UUP who weren't prepared to take
a risk.
P.T.: Am I right in supposing you would identify
yourself as leaning more towards the left of the Unionist spectrum?
P.T.: In social matters (abortion, LGBT rights,
relationship between church and state, etc.), I would regard myself as a
secular (or atheist?) libertarian. In economic matters, I lean towards
socialism, or at least the European version of social democracy.
Within the political establishment of Northern Irish
Unionism, that would be very much a minority viewpoint. One of the reasons that
there has been quite a bit of conflict in working-class
Protestant/Loyalist areas recently is that there isn't really any political
representation for these disadvantaged communities.
P.T.: I am unfamiliar with the term “atheist” being
applied to a worldview encompassing the social issues you have mentioned, since
I would think atheists might take any number of stances about abortion,
homosexual “marriage”, etc. Could you please explain?
P.W.: Atheists do, of course, have a wide
range of views on social topics, but by and large in NI, the various churches
and their political advocates "guide" or dominate the debate in this
regard, and non-church people, almost by default, take a more liberal attitude
on abortion, same sex marriage, etc.
P.T.: How did you first come to identify yourself as a
Unionist, and what inspired you to take up blogging?
P.W.: Having lived, worked, and studied in various
parts of the United Kingdom, the awareness of my Britishness developed. I
guess my Unionism is more of a pragmatic or logical belief rather than an
emotional one. I quite liked the fact that Carlisle or London or Glasgow is
much my nation as Belfast.
Blogging offered a good opportunity to get things off my
chest, and its explosion as a medium of expression coincided with my
having quite a lot of free time on my hands to do proper research/analysis before
posting.
P.T.: You say that your affinity with Unionism is
more-or-less based on pragmatism. However, quite a few of your articles,
particularly your famous "Liberty and Union" adaptation, reveal a
very emotionally connective element. Do you believe that there is a certain balance
between the head and heart in Unionism that should be met?
P.W.: Most people feel an emotional connection
with their nation. That's patriotism, and as distinct from nationalism,
perfectly morally acceptable. I am no different. However I don't see any
inherent superiority in, for example, British literature or music as opposed to
that which is enjoyed in Germany, South Africa, or Brazil.
Unionism needs the continuance of the Union that will
not result from purely an emotional argument. Our opponents (certainly in
Northern Ireland and to a lesser extent in Scotland) rely almost completely on
an emotional, "heart" argument at their foundation. But a large
minority, or even a small majority, in both countries is not attached one way or
the other regarding the constitutional future of their nation. They need a more
objective argument to vote for the continuance of the Union.
P.T.: I agree for the most part about the danger of
emotional extremism, especially considering the damage done by mindless Nationalism
that views other cultures as somehow inferior. It seems that Alex Salmond has
played that card any number of times in hopes of making the Scots preen their
feathers and look down on their southern neighbors. What do you think is a good
way to combat this divisive and glaringly inaccurate attitude?
P.W.: The best method would be objective arguments.
It is impossible to beat nationalism using a political theory which is based on
emotional subjectivity. We should keep asking questions rather than letting
them push meaningless platitudes devoid of proof.
P.T.: What are your hopes for Northern Ireland, as
well as Ireland as a whole? Do you think the division of the island can be
maintained, or is it likely that it will eventually reunite and sway one way or
the other?
P.W.: The best thing which I can hope for N.
Ireland is stability and a political system which is no longer based on
ethno-sectarian lines. The Republic and The North are much closer than they
ever were because the Republic and the UK as a whole are closer than they ever
were. The future will see those ties strengthen even further, which is good
news for Northern Ireland from all points of view.
P.T.: What do you think would be a potentially
stable political system for Northern Ireland?
P.W.: I think a governing system which is
integrated more with the rest of UK would help in that it would take out the
cultural and social decisions which the politicians in NI are not presently
capable of dealing with.
P.T.: Do you think Northern Ireland will ever get
her own flag or home anthem? If so, what type of flag and what anthem would you
favor?
P.W.: I can see NI getting its own flag and anthem.
There is quite a strong pressure from a number of NI football supporters
for that to happen. Whether or not it would be acceptable to a wider audience
in Northern Ireland or even a majority, I don't know. As for my personal
preference, I would take the Cross of St. Patrick for the flag. Don't mind
about the anthem, as long as it isn't Danny Boy!
P.T.: What’s your opinion on parading and Orange
Order functions in general?
P.W.: The Orange Order and parading makes little to
no impact on myself and my family. To a large extent the whole question has
nothing to do with the Union, but is more of a social/cultural question. I do
suspect that if nationalists “win” against the Orange Order, then they will
move onto other British/Unionist/Protestant targets. Republicans in South
Derry have in previous years complained about an annual church
Boys' Brigade march.
P.T.: Do you believe it would ever be possible for
a political “reunion” to reconnect The British Isles, Ireland included, and do
you believe that would theoretically desirable from a unionist perspective?
Failing that, do you think The Republic of Ireland might ever rejoin the
Commonwealth?
P.W.: There won't be a political reunion of
the British Isles, even though I would agree it would be theoretically desirable
for a Unionist. In the end, I am not sure if it really matters if, on
a cultural/social and economic level, unity between the ROI and the
UK already exists. Would the ROI rejoin the Commonwealth at some point?
Can't see it happening in the short term.
P.T.: Switching gears, what’s your prediction as to
the outcome of the Scottish Independence Referendum, and what are the polls showing
opinion to be for and against Scottish independence at this point?
P.W.: With not living in Scotland, hard to say. Currently,
the latest opinion polls on the referendum show the "yes" 6 % behind,
but increasing.
P.T.: Do you feel at all apprehensive about this
increase for “Yes”, after such a long stretch where the numbers were pretty
much stagnant?
P.W.: I do not feel much apprehension about the
“Yes” increase at the moment. Another couple of months of consistently rising
figures, of course, would be a different matter.
P.T.: Should a No vote be turned out, what are some
ways in which to make the most of that victory?
P.W.: Anything below 35% for the Yes campaign, and
the concept of separation will be buried for a generation or more. I am not
sure we need or should do anything in the event of a "No" vote.
P.T.: You highlight the 35% mark. What might happen
if “Yes” gets more support than that, and gains the vote of just under 50%?
P.W.: If just under 50% votes for independence, and
just over 50% votes against it, quite obviously, we've still won! Nevertheless,
we may see the issue resurface regularly, as is the case in Quebec.
P.T.: Should a Yes vote be turned out and Scotland
becomes independent, where do you think Unionist activists will go from there on
a broad scale?
P.W.: If the vote goes that way, Unionists should
regroup and do everything possible to help and protect the British people in
Scotland. The workings of the Union have always been haphazard and flexible.
That's it greatest strength.
P.T.: What exactly do you mean by protecting the
British people in a potentially post-independent Scotland? And what do you
think might become of the Union Jack in such a situation?
P.W.: With regards to protecting the British people
in a potentially post-independent Scotland, I mean their cultural and social
rights, the right to learn British history, the financial benefits from the UK
state (unemployment, pension), etc. And be assured the Union Jack would still be flown unofficially in many places.
P.T.: Regardless of the outcome, I’m glad to hear
that the Unionist camp will continue to support the rights of “British” people
and make the best out of whatever situation arises.
While on the subject of referendums, do you think an
independence referendum will ever be held in Northern Ireland? If so, what do
you think the result would be?
P.W.: In Northern Ireland, I don’t think there will
an "independence" referendum, but perhaps more of a border poll. At
the moment, if such a poll were to be taken, the Unionists would win by more
than 30% of the vote.
P.T.: As a native Northern Irishman yourself, can
you highlight some of the benefits you believe Northern Ireland has remaining a
part of the UK?
P.W.: The UK has a much larger economy and is a
much greater power within the world politically than the Republic. Put bluntly,
it is in a much stronger position to support NI than the Northern Irish.
P.T.: What do you consider your own identity to be:
strictly British, or British/Irish, or British/Northern Irish? Do you feel that
the “Northern Irish” identity is distinct from the general “Irish” identity,
and is it possible for someone to feel comfortable holding all three of these
identities at the same time?
P.W.: I would be a mixture of all three, also with
"European" thrown in. It is up to the individual how comfortable they
feel holding all three. Again, there isn't a strict definition of Irish or N.
Irish, so both can exist as separate or united identities.
P.T.: What are some of your plans for the future,
politically and otherwise? What do you think you will be doing as the
referendum heats up?
P.W.: Unfortunately due to my career
responsibilities, I seem to have less and less time to even plan for the
future! My personal target is better time management and creating a stronger
political presence on our “Open Unionism” Facebook and twitter accounts. As the
referendum heats up, I would like us to be pumping out as much material as
possible online.
P.T.: What are some of your other interests,
hobbies, and goals in life?
P.W.: I enjoy running and have already run two
marathons and countless half marathons. I would like to break three hours
thirty for my next marathon, and one hour thirty for the half. Other than that,
I walk my dog, feed my fish, and try to keep healthy and sane!
P.T.: Well, do extend my best wishes to your canine
and aquatic family members! Thank you very much for taking the time out for
this interview, Mr. Watterson.
P.W.: Thanks for showing the interest, and keep up
the good work on our own blog, OU, and here on UJC.
