Interview with Damien Davies, Unionist Activist

Pearl of Tyburn:  Tonight we’ll be speaking with Damien Davies, Unionist Activist. Hello, Mr. Davies.

Damien Davies:  Hello.

P.T.:  Could you elaborate about your background and what identities you might see yourself as having, culturally, nationally, religiously, and otherwise?

D.D.:  I am a 31-year-old British Person who happens to live in North West England, Runcorn, 9 miles downstream from Liverpool. Religiously, Church of England, although have Broad Catholic Leanings but to not regularly practice.

I have always regarded myself British first (as it is more inclusive) and English second, although was born in Scotland to Parents of Welsh. I consider England to be one of the Historic Countries in The United Kingdom of Great Britain (a state as it were), but The United Kingdom to be my country. England, Wales and Scotland are all internal regions of the UK, but they make up a whole.

P.T.:  Where in Scotland were you born? Do you feel Celtic at all in your mix of identities, and what do you think about the issue of Celtic language preservation, such as Welsh?

D.D.:  I was born in Edinburgh, raised in England and have Welsh/Irish Decent. I have no affinity for Celtic identity even with my Scottish/Irish and Welsh background, but I do believe that traditional Celtic languages should be preserved as much as possible.

P.T.:  What are your feelings with regard to the Scottish independence referendum?

D.D.:  It is an affront to everything The United Kingdom represents and is absolutely heartbreaking to me.

P.T.:  What do you see the UK as representing, to you and to the world?

D.D.:  I see the collective diversity and comradeship of this Island as our biggest asset and not a weakness that the separatists would have Scotland believe. Look around the world, 50 percent of inventions; the locomotive, the telephone, television, World Wide Web and the automobile, etc. etc. All are British innovation within the Union.

For good or ill, the Greatest Empire the world has seen which turned English into the 2nd or 3rd most spoken language in the world, just logistically for us is splendid. The colours of the Red-white and blue of our flag are in most overseas territories and former colonies.

P.T.:  What would you say about the post-imperial slump that seems to have affected many Brits psychologically?

D.D.:  It has not affected me in the slightest; the United Kingdom does not owe me, a typical working class man in the North of England, anything. Frankly the people it has affected need to get over themselves

P.T.:  Do you think that countries owe their people anything? What do you think the role of patriotism plays, and what do you think people owe their country?

D.D.:  I do feel that the Country or State owes the Taxpayer a lot, good defence, reasonable priced housing to buy and a chance to make a pound, gainful employment as it were. For this, the Country is owed our allegiance in turn. That’s patriotism.

P.T:  What about the supposed historical arguments brought up by separatists?

D.D.:  Historical Battles of the indigenous peoples of Britain is old hat, 400 years old hat. The British built this Union with British hands is a much more immediate reality than fighting for something that you have no personal stake in.

I would not fight for that cause, I would fight for the cause to preserve the Greatest Social, Political and Economic Union the world has ever known. Twice in the last Century our forebears gave their lives for defend our freedoms. That is worth a lot more than the separatists can conceive.

P.T.:  What symbol of Britain stands out most in your mind? What do you think would happen to the Union Jack should Scotland break away?

D.D.:  For me, it is the Symbol of Britannia. She is embossed on the Train Bridge in Runcorn so get a daily reminder of the Kingdom of Great Britain. The Union Jack will be no more if the separatists get their way.

P.T.:  What are your thoughts about the Saxon vs. Celtic analogies and the way that Ireland and Scotland are often compared?

D.D.:  Ireland is not Great Britain; the Irish Troubles are largely over with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. Bringing that in the debate would just antagonize the whole peace process in Northern Ireland, who resoundingly decided they were British. Let that be an end to that issue. This is about the Constitutional Future of Great Britain, not Scotland as the separatists would like to make out.

P.T.:  What are your thoughts on Federalization and the home rule bodies in the UK? Also are you a part of any political party?

D.D.:  I vote, but am not affiliated with any political party. I do not agree with federalization and home rule bodies, but that is neither here nor there because it is here. I can elaborate on that, if you wish.

P.T:  Please do.

D.D:  Federalization works best with Large Areas of expansive land which is sparsely populated relative to size, Great Britain or the UK could fit inside Texas, just one of the 50 States in the USA.

So the conceit with Devolution in the UK is that Scotland and Wales are NOT British but Scottish and Welsh respectively. This is a problem as it teaches Scots and Welsh to regard themselves as something other than British

P.T.:  Under the circumstances of home rule existing in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, do you think England should have a home rule body?

D.D:  In theory that is a sound idea; at the minute the UK pays for English MP's in the UK Parliament and for Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland too, but now three of the home nations have two sets of MP's so basically there in a job share with each other but with no reduced hours or wages. So we are all paying more cash for more politicians, which there are too many of already.

P.T.:  What do you think about the SNP argument about Tory Rule that they hope will help advocate independence among mostly anti-Tory Scots?

D.D.:  Scotland is the only Country in the United Kingdom which has ever returned over 50% of votes to the Tories, in addition when the UK General Election rolls around we vote as ONE in the Unified Great Britain, the "us" and "them" mentality is merely a confection drummed up by the SNP, which I deplore. Tories have more MSPs in Holyrood than the SNP have in Westminster also, and yet the SNP have a mandate to Break-up-Britain...

P.T.:  What's your opinion of Alex Salmond?

D.D.:  I cannot repeat it but there is a lot of expletive deleted in there. It is telling that the SNP were against the National Minimum Wage in 1997 and Devolution in 1997 also, against more powers of the Edinburgh Agreement in 2012 and supported the dreaded Margaret Thatcher’s rise to power in the 1970's. She was known as milk snatcher in England too. It seems as if this party’s primary function is to antagonize and provoke.

P.T.:  What do you think of Alistair Darling? What is your opinion on the debates that took place between him and Salmond?

D.D.:  Alistair Darling is a decent chap, but Salmond is an utter disgrace. The debates were okay, but Darling was way too nice.

P.T.:  What do you think is the best way to defeat Salmond?

D.D.:  VOTE NO! Hopefully there will be a vote of no confidence in the leadership of Mr. Salmond.

P.T.:  What methods do you think the Unionist campaign should use to bolster than no vote?

D.D.: I am offended it is actually been raised as a question. That's how much of a no-brainer the United Kingdom is to me. I feel as an Ideal, if the United Kingdom can say that we can achieve so much more together than apart, lots of Countries come and go, new Countries formed and regimes fall, not in Britain?

Because we have a tried, tested, true and stable form of Liberal Democracy, which is something other parts of the world can only dream of. This should be a source of pride that we can engage in this debate without violence and some out the other side stronger for it. And to be fair, if our United Kingdom is everything us Unionists think and believe it is we have nothing to worry about :) Better Together, always were.

P.T.:  What do you think about arguments turning the whole thing on its head, saying "smaller better", "weaker better", etc.?

D.D.:  I would say that collectively the United Kingdom has the 5th Largest Economy in the world and the second largest in the EU, but are the 80th largest Country in terms of Size, why would anybody wish to diminish this? I cannot abide the mentality which would see the separatists metaphorically cut of one of my healthy legs.

P.T.:  How do you feel personally affected by the concept of the British culture being split apart and ultimately dissolved as we know it?

As a British person, Nessie is part of my culture, as is the bagpipe and tartan. The separatists with to take this away from me. Imagine if there was a British Government voted in at the last general election trying to cut away Scotland, what would Scots call the rest of the United Kingdom?

P.T.:  Dirty rats, snakes-in-the-grass, etc.?

D.D.:  My sentiments exactly. My personal view is that the SNP got in on a protest vote against the Tories and Lib Dems climbing in the bed with them.

P.T.:  What's your opinion on the sterling issue?

D.D.:  Pound Sterling was the English Currency before the Acts of Union; the exchange of the Pound Scots to Sterling was 12 Pound Scots to 1 Pound Sterling, so no wonder the separatists want to keep it, but it would need to be the English currency as not to get all playground but it was England's first. I would not support an official currency union, have already written to my MP about that.

P.T.:  Again regarding Ireland, how would you respond to the nationalist assertation, "Well, lots of young nations struggled at first, like ROI, but got back on their feet...etc. etc."?

 D.D.:  Ireland is in the EUROZONE, how is that going again?

P.T.:  What are some of your personal interests/hobbies and what do you see for your future, of yourself and the UK?

D.D.:  I enjoy creative writing and write a lot of plays and screenplays in my spare time. I also enjoy photography, do a lot of hunting and angling, and am into movies in a big way.

Basically United Kingdom has been here for over 300 years and based on the success story of our Union I want the next 3,000 years, just sad that I will not be here to see it...our decedents will make us all proud to secure our Union and retain our Britishness.

P.T.:  Thanks, Mr. Davies. Thanks for everything.

D.D.:  No problem.

  

Interview with Jonathan Robert Waddell, Student at the University of Aberdeen

P.T.:  Today I’ll be speaking with Jonathan Robert Waddell, a Student of History and Economics at the University of Aberdeen. Hello, Mr. Waddell.

J.W.:  Hello!

P.T.:  First could you tell me a bit about your background?

J.W.:  I'm from the north east of Scotland, studied at Aberdeen College, now North East Scotland College and moved on to study History and Economics at the University of Aberdeen. I'm president of the Aberdeen University Liberal Democrats and I'm campaigning for a Federal Britain through quite radical constitutional change post-no vote in September.

P.T.:  Could you please explain what type of constitutional changes you would be interested in seeing? And would the federalization be similar to that in the USA?

J.W.:  Starting with a full transfer of domestic policy to be handled by the devolved parliaments of the UK, the creation of an English parliament or maybe regional assemblies within England. From there I believe we can start to consider what we want our union to look like, how it will function on a constitutional basis and where we want to take it. I believe the model the Scottish parliament currently has is a great direction to take the other parliaments in.

P.T.:  How does this contrast with the situation as it is now?

J.W.:  As it stands, the current powers the Scottish and UK parliaments have in relation to each other, are defined by what are 'reserved' powers at Westminster, the Scottish parliament handles everything else. And then all of this to be embodied in a fully written, codified and entrenched constitution. I feel a system like this would give the Devolved parliaments the autonomy they deserve and need to run a success Federal UK. It's very ambitious and will require a lot of hard work, but I believe it's achievable if we work hard enough for it.

P.T.:  What do you think about the participants in the movement to bring about Scottish independence?

J.W.:  It's hard to say. In all debates I take part in and campaigns I respect my opponent and in many cases get on very well with them. Some of my best friends are Labour and Tories when I’m a Liberal Democrat.

In this debate I feel it's been so polarized that I’ve not had the opportunity to really make friends with them, and although I don't wish to make out that there has been no potential guilt on the Unionist side, I do feel that from my personal experience, the Independence movement has been much less accepting and much more hostile which has led me to find it hard to respect them while disagreeing with their campaign.

P.T.:  What are your reasons for being a unionist?

R.W.:  To me it's how we can use our resources to the best possible ends. I feel the various countries within the UK all have their various different strengths and all have very similar problems and very similar aims. If we work together, pool what resources we have, put all of our best minds together and work against our common enemies of poverty or homelessness, then we can do better to reach our common goals and eradicate these things.

I don't see what I have largely more in common with my neighbour in Scotland than my family in England or Wales. Ultimately, I feel the system we have is a good one, it's far from perfect and the policy isn't always right but the system itself has so much potential to work to the benefit of 63m people rather than just 5m. I want to make the best of that system for the benefit of everyone in the UK, including Scotland.

P.T.:  What would your consider your personal identities, national/cultural/religious/or otherwise? What do you think of the "crisis of identity" in Britain?

R.W.:  Well, this is probably the toughest part in the debate. Nationalists to me seem to be concerned with the Scottish identity and little else. But I don't really understand what that means. Cultural identity means so much more than the political boundaries you're parents were born in. My parents are from the central belt and I have a bit of that in me, but I was raised in the north east, in a town called Banchory, and then in Aberdeen. Hence, I’m a 'Taucher' and a 'Toonser' then I guess 'Scottish' and as part of that 'British' and of course, 'European'.

But all these things have so much to them they can mean whatever you want them to mean. I think the idea that you can be 'Scottish' is inherently not Scottish. As Scotland is made up of so many various, extremely rich cultural identities that to be Scottish could mean any number of things. As for the identity in Britain, we're in an increasingly internationalist and globalizing world and I feel clutching onto old ideas of Nationalism of any description is living in the past and we should start to expand our ideas into the modern world.

P.T.:  Do you believe that there is any place for a robust British identity, something along the lines of what is shown in America throughout the individual states?

R.W.:  I really hope not. I find both nationalism and patriotism quite futile ideals, the belief that your nationality is inherently good and others inferior and the idea that you can be proud of achievements you had no place in. I love where I live, and as an extension of that of course I love Scotland.

I want what's best for all the people who live here, but I want what's best for anyone living anywhere. Why wouldn't I want to extend a higher standard of living to anyone I can whenever I can? I consider myself an internationalist in that regard. I want what's best for the greater amount of people.

P.T.:  What is your view on the way history effects and informs the present? What do you think about the different "narratives" presented by nationalist and unionist camps in this debate?

J.W.:  Well, I'm a History student, and I would like to introduce the age old, over used yet under appreciated quote from George Santayana 'Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it'. I think we need to understand our past and the context to understand where we are today, learn from our mistakes and move forward from them.

I must admit whenever I bring history into the debate, nationalists like to tell me that 'this debate isn't about the past, the independence movement is about the future' before dropping into some narrative about some supposedly horrible thing 'Westminster' did way back when, completely contradicting themselves.

P.T.:  Being a student of history, what do you think of the referendum being held on the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn and the whole connection with the wars of Scottish independence in general?

J.W.:  I think in a historical context, it's completely irrelevant. The wars of independence are not only so far in the past it can't be compared to modern day events and we can't allow ourselves to judge events of the past by today’s standards, but even if we could compare them, it was a very different situation that we were in.

However, I think it's very of the SNP’s outlook and tactics to make it this year. They are desperate to inspire an idea of Scottishness over Britishness. But we've already discussed the idea of identity. In short, I feel the SNP think they can inspire people to vote with their hearts and distract people from their flimsy arguments on economics and practicalities.

P.T.:  What do you feel about the monarchy?

J.W.:  Generally passive on the idea. I feel they don't have any divine right to rule, but they have no real power and exercise purely ceremonial powers. They contribute more to the treasury than they receive out of it and are generally favourable in public opinion as well as being hugely respected diplomats across the world. I see no reason to get rid of them, but they exist as a formality, if they exercised real power I’d be far more skeptical.

P.T.:  What do you think of them as they apply to the subject of unity? And what is your opinion on the Jacobite rebellions as they are being used in Nat propaganda? And with regards to them making the current Scottish monarchy "illegitimate"?

J.W.:  I think this moves us into a much broader debate that moves us away from the contentious issues that the referendum will be won and lost on. In general, I don't feel these historical events contribute to the context that we're debating in the run up to the referendum.

P.T.:  Thanks so much for the interview, Jonathan.

J.W.:  Sure! It's nice to get different questions for a change by the way. I've answered the same questions over and over, but these are bit different and I like that :) I've done so many debates and interviews. Same issues, same questions, over and over again. This is a nice change. I’m glad you're getting involved! :)

P.T.: Could you tell us a little bit about yourself personally?

J.W.:  I'm 22! :) I'm afraid I’m a complete nerd. At university I do a lot of debating and in my free time I like to go hill walking, rock climbing and cross country mountain biking. I also play guitar and drums, punk/rock etc.

P.T.:  Thank you for taking the time to be interviewed. I do hope everything works out well in the end for you and all of us.

J.W.:  Thanks; me too.

Interview with Rev. Ricky Yates, Church of England Chaplain of St. Clements’s Anglican Parish

Pearl of Tyburn:  We now have Rev. Ricky Yates coming to us from Prague, Czech Republic. Good evening!

Ricky Yates:  Good evening Pearl!

P.T.:  First, could you tell me a little bit about your background and work?

R.Y.:  I'm British man, born 20 days after H M the Queen came to the throne, so like Her Majesty, I celebrated my Diamond Jubilee in 2012 :) I've been an ordained Anglican priest for nearly 25 years & since September 2008, I've been the resident Anglican Chaplain in Prague.

P.T.:  Do you belong to any political party?

R.Y.:  I used to be a paid up member of the Liberal Democrats, but I have no party affiliation at present. I'm also not currently registered to vote in the UK.

P.T.:  Do you consider yourself more predominately English or British?

R.Y.:  Interesting question! I'm English in that I was born in England of English parents. But particularly here in the Czech Republic, I usually say I'm British, not least because I travel on a British passport & my Czech residency documentation says 'United Kingdom' (in Czech of course), as being my nationality.

P.T.:  So what is your reaction to the prospect of breaking up the union through Scottish independence?

R.Y.:  I think it would be very foolish. I strongly believe in the devolution of powers to Scotland & Wales, but I don't see any reason for complete separation. The SNP might argue otherwise, but the fact is that England subsidies both Scotland and Wales and there would be understandable calls for that financial support to cease should Scotland become independent.

P.T.:  What do you think of the concept of federalization?

R.Y.:  It depends what you mean by federalization. But if you mean each constituent country of the UK being self-governing but with defense, foreign affairs etc being the responsibility of a UK wide federal government, as in the USA or Australia, then I would be in favour of that. At the moment, you have laws for England & sometimes Wales, being voted on by Scottish MPs when English MPs cannot vote on laws relating to Scotland.

P.T.:  Do you consider yourself “European” and how do you feel about the European Union and the future of Scotland/Britain within in, depending upon the outcome of the referendum?

R.Y.:  I certainly regard myself as European - after all, my wife is German & we live in the Czech Republic. Whilst the EU isn't perfect, it has maintained peace post WW2, greatly assisted trade & economic development & made travel so much easier.

The UK would be shooting itself in the foot if it were to leave the EU. And I'm one of about two million British citizens who live in other EU member states & our situation would become very uncertain.

P.T.:  What do you think the difference would be (if any) for an independent Scotland in the EU as opposed to being within the UK?

R.Y.:  There is no guarantee that an independent Scotland would be part of the EU. This is one of the strong arguments against independence. For example, the Spanish would oppose an independent Scotland being allowed to join as it would set a precedent for Catalonia.

P.T.:  Ah. I wonder if Italy feels the same way about Venice, and France about Brittany....

R.Y.:  Exactly! The Spanish have been the most vocal on this matter but there would be similar concerns in Italy & France.

P.T.: How has living in the Czech Republic affected your views on unions and separation?

R.Y.:  What I did want to say is that I live in part of a country that also divided in two on 01/01/1993 when Czechoslovakia divided into the Czech Republic & Slovakia. I've heard from many Czechs & Slovaks as to how much they regret that break up. Relatively few Czechs live in Slovakia whereas many Slovaks live and work in the Czech Republic & in many ways, find themselves at a disadvantage because they are now 'foreigners' in what was previously their own country.

A similar situation would arise if Scotland became independent. Relatively few English people live in Scotland, but many more Scots live & work in England & might be left feeling like Slovaks do here in the Czech Republic.

P.T.:  Do you think there is ever a chance of Czechoslovakia being reunified?

R.Y.:  No - It would be very difficult to put the two countries back together & the same would apply to England and Scotland. Back to one of my very early points. The Czechs, in some measure, financially supported the Slovaks before the Velvet Divorce. That financial support went with the division into two. Slovakia is about the same size as the CR but with less that half the population. It is mainly rural & mountainous. I hope the parallels are clear.

P.T.:  What do you think about the monarchy and how it applies to the national identity and the union? Can you tell me about your experience with Prince Charles and The Duchess of Cornwall?

R.Y.:  My own opinion is that having a constitutional monarchy has served the UK very well, certainly for the past 150 years, & I see no reason to change it. HM the Queen is very strong about being the Queen of the United Kingdom. She is a strong unifying factor. As I'm sure you're aware, Prince Charles is a far less popular character, though attitudes towards him & the Duchess have improved markedly in recent years.

My own experience with meeting C & C and having to preach with them in my congregation was a little nerve racking but equally quite enjoyable. They were in Prague on a Sunday at the time and wanted to be at worship on a Sunday. Prince Charles also wanted it to be seen that he was at worship! You can read more about it here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/7493322/Prince-of-Wales-and-Camilla-join-Prague-worshippers.html

http://www.dukeandduchessofcambridge.org/news-and-diary/trh-attend-church-prague?__utma=1.1299982778.1403553590.1403553590.1403553590.1&__utmb=1.4.10.1403553590&__utmc=1&__utmx=_utmz=1.1403553590.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmccn=%28organic%29|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=%28not%20provided%29&__utmv=-&__utmk=234216990

P.T.:  This is just out of curiosity, but did you just wake one Sunday and someone told you: "Guess what? The prince is coming to church!" Or was this prepared?

R.Y.:  I knew more than two months in advance. See http://rickyyates.com/a-forthcoming-royal-visit/ & my subsequent posts.

P.T.:  Well, I'm sure that saved you a panic attack, lol!

R.Y.:  Indeed!

P.T.:  What do you think of Alex Salmond vs. Alasdair Darling?

R.Y.:  I have to say that, being a little removed from the UK now, I haven't closely followed the debate between these two gentlemen. But I have to confess I am not a fan of Alex Salmond. I have always felt that he's rather full of himself - rather self-important & if I'm honest, not a good advert for Scotland.

P.T.:  What do you think of the way BT is running there campaign?

R.Y.: Their campaign has at times, been a little negative in its approach by only emphasizing the dangers of voting for independence rather that stressing the benefits of the existing union.

P.T.:  What do you think that Alex Salmond and the other high-ranking SNP members hope to gain for themselves in this push for independence? 

R.Y.:  I always think Alex Salmond is far too full of his own self-importance. He obviously wants to gain both power & kudos for himself. Many of those with him, I guess, are drawn by power & greater recognition. Or am I being cynical? :)

P.T.:  Delightfully so!

R.Y.:  LOL!

P.T.:  Among average Scots, do you think that post-imperial regret may have to do with the rise in Nationalism?

R.Y.:  No - it's more to do with the economic downturn & increasing disenchantment with the main political parties.

P.T.:  What do you think about the way that the referendum question is phrased, putting “Yes” for independence and “No” for the Union?

R.Y.:  What ever way the question was phrased, was always going to cause controversy. Hopefully, there has been enough publicity to ensure that only a few idiots will misunderstand & vote the opposite way to their intentions.

P.T.:  Or more or less be encouraged to think "positively" and hence, "YES"!

R.Y.:  No doubt, that's what the SNP hope!

P.T.:  Do you think it would work much?

R.Y.:  No - for the reason I gave a moment ago. By September, the publicity surrounding the referendum should have made it abundantly clear what voting 'Yes' or 'No' will mean.

P.T.:  On another subject, many nationalists claim the British government has abused the land pretty consistently through history, from the clearances to dumping nuclear waste in Scotland. What is your response to this?

R.Y.:  The clearances in the 18th and 19th centuries were usually carried out by wealthy Scots to the detriment of poorer Scots! In so many aspects of life, it is so easy to find a scapegoat, someone else to blame. Blaming a nameless group of people down in London makes an easy scapegoat.

With regard to nuclear waste - all governments look to remote places to store it. Whilst I believe there is some in Scotland, a lot is stored in NW England in Cumbria. In general, they have a somewhat idealistic view of history with very little grip on reality. That may be a little harsh, so I await any brickbats that come in my direction :)

P.T.:  Hey, it happens…;-)

What do you think about Celtic culture and its preservation (linguistically and otherwise) in contrast to nationalism?

R.Y.:  Independence doesn't necessarily help with the preservation of culture & language. The Irish Republic has been independent for nearly 100 years but despite Irish Gaelic being the country's official language, it still is only spoken fluently by between 5 & 10% of the population.

On the other hand, Wales has remained within the UK & with active government support, has seen the number of fluent Welsh speakers rise from 20 to 25% in the past twenty years or so. I think you can very easily preserve different cultures without the need for more small independent nations.

P.T.:  What was your personal experience in Wales and with the Welsh language?

And what practical ways do you think could be made to preserve that sort of culture within the union?

R.Y.:  I spent three years studying for my first degree at a small University College located in a predominantly Welsh-speaking town, even allowing for the College being an anglicising influence :) I enjoyed hearing Welsh being spoken and made some effort to at least understand the basics of the language, particularly how to pronounce it!

All children in Wales are taught Welsh until they are 16, there is a Welsh medium TV channel, both of which are financed by UK government money. The Welsh culture has been preserved within the UK, together with the delegation of powers to the Welsh Assembly just as the current Scottish parliament has it's local law making powers.

P.T.:  As an Englishman, what’s your opinion on David Cameron and his encouraging English people to call their Scottish friends and relatives to urge them to stay in the Union?

R.Y.:  I think he has every right to do so. Why should the Prime Minister of the UK be silent on the issue? He values the union & wants to see it preserved. And he's entitled to say what he has said.

P.T.:  To wrap things up, could you tell me a little big about what you see for yourself in the future, and your interests/hobbies?

R.Y.:  I hope to retire from full time ministry in less than three years time - Easter 2017. I then hope to spend more time writing & possibly undertake another long-distance pilgrimage either to Santiago de Compostela walking from Prague or Prague to Jerusalem!

P.T.:  Well, good luck with all these future endeavors, and thank you for taking the time out for the interview.

R.Y.: My pleasure.

Interview with “Bonnie Lass”, Resident of the Edinburgh Area

Pearl of Tyburn:  This evening we have with us “Bonnie Lass” from the Edinburgh area of Scotland. Thanks so much for taking the time out to do this.

Bonnie Lass:  My pleasure!

P.T.:  First, could you give me a brief overview of your background and what national/cultural/religious identities you might see yourself as having?

B.L.:  I was born in Scotland and have lived in Scotland all my life. I think of myself as Scottish and not British - if I'm filling up forms, for instance, and am asked for nationality, I always put Scottish. I'm a member of the Church of Scotland, but prefer to call myself a Christian.

P.T.:  Do you belong to any particular political party?

B.L.:  I am not a member of any political party, but I have voted Labour for many years now (including today at the European elections).

P.T.:  What was your first impression when the Scottish Independence Referendum was announced?

B.L.:  I wasn't entirely surprised, as I thought it had been on the cards for a while. But when it was announced, I realised this would be a big step, whichever way it went.

P.T.:  As a person who sees herself as primarily Scottish as opposed to British, how will you vote in the referendum come September, and what are your reasons? 

B.L.: Well, although I think of myself as Scottish in all things, I will NOT be voting for independence when the time comes.

It seems to me that the UK is a small enough country as it is without being fragmented further. And there are SO MANY imponderables when it comes to independence. Do we get to keep the pound sterling? What about EU membership, and maybe even the need for passports to cross the border into England?

P.T.: What do you think the result will be now that an independent Scotland may be unable to keep the pound? Also, what’s your opinion on Scotland’s overall financial well-being should she become independent?

B.L.:  Many big companies are talking about relocating in England if we became independent because we may no longer have the pound.

I don't know if we have enough financial resources to 'go it alone'. The big cry has always been (since drilling started in the North Sea) "It's Scotland's oil" - but how long before the oil runs out?

P.T.:  What do you think of the Scottish Parliament and other home rule bodies within the UK? And what’s your answer to the claim that complete independence would make Scotland more of a force to be reckoned with on the world stage?

B.L.:  Well, I was delighted when we got the Scottish Parliament as it meant we were able to concentrate on purely Scottish issues, some of which Westminster doesn't know or doesn't care about. But I don't think that independence would make us more a force to be reckoned with.

Having “home rule” doesn’t necessitate independence from the Union. One alternative which is spoken about is 'devo-max', which seems to mean we would keep the status quo but, that the Scottish Parliament would also be given more powers, perhaps in taxes etc. That could be a good alternative in my opinion.

P.T.:  What are you thoughts on Alex Salmond and his independence campaign?

B.L.:  A lot of us wonder if Alex Salmond has some self-interest at heart. Perhaps if someone different was in charge, I would feel differently about it all, but such is the case. The question is how much are people swayed by personalities?

P.T.:  Do you think that celebrities who outspoken on the issue of Scottish independence are affecting are affecting the opinions of the Scottish people at all?

B.L.:  Is it really supposed to sway us? It doesn't alter my views. It annoys me the way that this host of ‘famous’ people - from film stars to comedians to personalities – are stating their views, for or against. For example, Sean Connery is all for Scottish independence, which, of course, is countered by the fact that he doesn't even live here!

P.T.: Now I hear that his Agent 007 counterpart, Roger Moore, is vouching for the preservation of the UK. The War of the Bonds seems to have begun!

B.L.: Oh, dear!

P.T.: Do you think there is something of a different tone in the Scottish nationalist movement of today and nationalists in past generations?

B.L.:  There was a difference in the nationalist cause back when they 'liberated' the Stone of Scone, and now. Somehow they seemed quite different but can't identify quite exactly how. It was more historically based than politically back then, I think.

P.T.:  What do you think about the way that the referendum question is phrased, putting “Yes” for independence and “No” for the Union?

B.L.:  I think it's quite confusing. Even now, when people ask if I'm going to vote yes or no, I sometimes have to say, er....what's the question again?! It's quite loaded making the positive answer the one for independence, isn't it?

P.T.:  Indeed. In fact, I would think it would be more natural for "yes" to be in favor of the status quo.

B.L.:  You're right! Perhaps that's why I get confused. Also....it's such a long time since it was brought up. Is the question do you want Scotland to be a separate STATE or a separate COUNTRY?

P.T.:  Good point. Or, going further, what's the difference between a "country" and a "nation", as it seems that a lot of people identify Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland as "nations" within the "country" of the UK!

B.L.:  I think they did try out several wordings before they decided. There were also all sorts of 'joke' replacement questions circulating, such as "Do you want these mealy-mouthed, penny pinching Sassenachs to take over the education of our wee bairns?"

P.T.:  In the midst of all this red tape and wild gags, how would you have liked to have seen the referendum question worded?

B.L.:  I think something along the lines of "Do you agree that Scotland would flourish as an independent nation?" or "Do you agree that Scotland would flourish keeping in the union?" Although I suppose that would be two questions instead of one.

P.T.:  Well, it could have been linked thusly: "Do you believe that Scotland would flourish more staying in the union, or becoming an independent nation?"

B.L.:  Yes, that sounds good, although then people couldn't answer just yes or no. Of course, I’m not sure if that’s mandatory.  I’ve never been in a referendum like this before.

P.T.:  What do you think of Salmond giving 16 years olds to right to vote in the referendum?

B.L.:  Many of us are also annoyed (and incredulous) that Salmond has given 16 year olds the vote! I mean, they are not eligible to vote in general elections. I feel that many of them will be influenced by 'Braveheart' and Freeeedommm!

However, I did watch an interview on TV with a group of 16 year olds, and I must say they spoke very sensibly and seemed very clued up about it all. They also had a mix of opinions.

P.T.:  Have you watched any referendum debates, live or on TV? If so, what are you thoughts about them?

B.L.:  There was a televised referendum debate on this week in our area. They are holding them round Scotland. I really only put it on to see if I recognized anyone in the audience, and I didn't know a single soul! I think a lot of folk must have been out-of-towners. It went on for an hour, and it was so BORING, I don't think it would make anyone change their mind.

P.T.:  From you interaction with people in your area, how high is the percentage of undecided voters you encounter now?

B.L.:  I don't know the percentages, but a lot of people I speak to still haven't decided. The 'letters' columns in all the papers are full of people giving their perspectives, but again I don't think people would change their mind because of what other people say (famous or 'ordinary'). Actually a lot of us think we will be heartily fed up with the whole thing by September!

P.T.:  How do you think people might be affected emotionally, since Scotland and England are very much intertwined at this point? What about those with families and jobs that transcend the border?

B.L.:  I don't know. As I said before, there are so many imponderables. Of course, there must be people very close to folk from across the border. You know David Cameron appealed to people in England to phone up their Scottish friends and say "We want you to stay with us!"

P.T.:  What do you think of that method he suggested? Have you or anyone you know received said "calls"?

B.L.:  Well, no one in England has phoned me! I thought it was a bit silly really and counterproductive, trying to force an outpouring of “love” that no one has brought up before now!

P.T.:  I think Mr. C. was trying to imitate something that went on during the Quebec Independence Referendum, when the people of Canada basically pleaded with the people within Quebec to remain a part of the country.

B.L.:  Oh, yes, I think someone else told me that.

P.T.:  I'm not sure if it helped directly, but the result did turn out favorable for them, and Quebec is still part of Canada to everyone's benefit, as time has revealed. But it was quite a close vote!

B.L:  I do wonder what the general English reaction is. I wouldn't be surprised if they think we should just get on and make up our own minds. Or maybe a lot of them would be happy to 'get rid' of us. Have there been any polls in England to ask that?

P.T.: Yes, there have been. Generally, 60% in favor of the union, 20% against it, and the rest not caring either way. Personally, everyone I know in England would be heartily depressed to lose you! So you are "loved" by some “southies”!

B.L:  Well, that's nice!

P.T.:  What do you think about the system allowing only those currently living in Scotland to vote?

B.L.:  It seems a bit odd. After all, I have several friends who were born in Scotland and now live in England, so they can't vote; but people born in England who live and work in Scotland can!

P.T.:  It does sound strange, especially since the "trans-border" commuters have the most to gain from the union in concept and reality. Lots of them have relatives north or south of the “dividing line”, as well job commitments.

They feel very much connected with the place as a part of their "country" and see their Scottish friends and relatives as "compatriots" But this is just one of the many complications in trying to "segregate" people who have been so intermixed by being considered one people for so long!

B.L.:  Yes, I agree. I think there are a whole lot of complications raising their heads now, which originally weren't thought of. The really worrying thing is that, whatever the outcome of the vote, it will (presumably) be irreversible.

P.T.:  Actually, some are predicting that if the pro-independence party loses by a slight margin, they may try to launch another independence referendum in as soon as two years!

On the other hand, should the pro-union party lose by a slight margin, the "Yes" people are insisting that we better shut up and sit down or else be branded as enemies of democracy!

B.L.:  I’ve often thought the worst result would be almost a dead-heat, but I hadn't heard that about another go in two years time...aargh!

P.T.:  The suggested “Round 2” for independence is speculative, mind, but some of the "Yes" people are definitely pushing for it, and the “No” people worrying about it, and most average people just dreading having to go through another neverendum in their lifetimes!

B.L.:  Yes, I don't think I could bear to go through it all again! I think it's important to emphasize that 'we' (I mean my friends and acquaintances) are NOT talking about it all the time! Perhaps come September we will, but at the moment we are just getting on with our lives.

I don't know how strongly people think about it just now. For instance, I know my sister is going to vote yes for independence and has a badge saying so, but she didn't ask me how I’m going to vote, so I didn't say!

P.T.:  What's your random prediction of the outcome in September? My guess, at this point, is that the union will win, but only by a slight margin.

B.L.:  I think marginally that the status quo is the one most people seem to think will win, but that’s just my (uninformed) opinion!

P.T.:  To wrap things up, could you tell us a little about your personal interests, hobbies, and goals in life?

B.L.:  I am passionately interested in local history and in collecting oral history from older people, and have written several books on this and hope to do some more. I would like other people to look back at their own local history roots. One of my immediate goals is to get the book I'm working on (people's memories of their working lives and daily living) finished and out in the public domain. It is SO important all these memories don't get lost when the folk go.

P.T.: I agree. History and heritage is so important to development of culture and all the good things in life.

B.L.:  Yes, that's it. It's very encouraging to me that you (at your age) think like that because more often it's when folk get older that they get interested in their heritage.

P.T.: Thank you for that! In addition to being a preserver of local heritage, do you have any other interests or goals in addition?

B.L.:  Well, I also have a passionate love of cats! In the area of goals, as a great granny, I am grateful to find I am still alive the next morning! My goals SHOULD be to exercise more and leave the car at home but never seem to manage this very well (blame the Scottish weather)!

P.T.:  You have a good enough excuse! Scottish weather blamed, lol! Thank you again for agreeing to let me interview you, “Bonnie Lass”, and I look forward to catching up again in the near future.

B.L.:  Speak again soon!